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	<title>Comments on: Enterprise Computing: New HDS AMS &#8211; Do We Need Enterprise Storage?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/</link>
	<description>Storage and Virtualisation</description>
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		<title>By: Wie viel Enterprise Storage steckt in der HDS AMS2000? &#124; Dr.Storage</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-860</link>
		<dc:creator>Wie viel Enterprise Storage steckt in der HDS AMS2000? &#124; Dr.Storage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-860</guid>
		<description>[...] Evans stellt in seinem Blog die Frage, ob man angesichts der neu angekündigten Features (siehe auch Hu Yaoshidas Blog) der HDS [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Evans stellt in seinem Blog die Frage, ob man angesichts der neu angekündigten Features (siehe auch Hu Yaoshidas Blog) der HDS [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ruehl</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ruehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-859</guid>
		<description>As Nigel mentioned already, the key reason for the use of the USPV is the replication technology as well as the increased cache and ports.  Tier II arrays just seem to be lacking in the asynchronous replication area. Currently any arrays that we are buying are going behind the USPV in order to use HUR if replication is necessary.

The whole one skillset argument isn&#039;t quite correct though,as you still need to present and layout the storage on the DMX,CX,etc in order to virtualize it behind the USPV, meaning you need the skills to allocate storage from those arrays as well as planning the layout on them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Nigel mentioned already, the key reason for the use of the USPV is the replication technology as well as the increased cache and ports.  Tier II arrays just seem to be lacking in the asynchronous replication area. Currently any arrays that we are buying are going behind the USPV in order to use HUR if replication is necessary.</p>
<p>The whole one skillset argument isn&#8217;t quite correct though,as you still need to present and layout the storage on the DMX,CX,etc in order to virtualize it behind the USPV, meaning you need the skills to allocate storage from those arrays as well as planning the layout on them.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-858</guid>
		<description>Frank

Thanks for the feedback.  I think you&#039;re right that platforms are converging.  We can see that already with EMC&#039;s Symmetrix/CLARiiON and other devices.  It makes sense really; the technology is becoming more reliable; customers want reduced cost and commodity storage will be delivered in the future using commodity components.  The differentiator will be software.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback.  I think you&#8217;re right that platforms are converging.  We can see that already with EMC&#8217;s Symmetrix/CLARiiON and other devices.  It makes sense really; the technology is becoming more reliable; customers want reduced cost and commodity storage will be delivered in the future using commodity components.  The differentiator will be software.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-857</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-857</guid>
		<description>Mark

Agreed. Perhaps the main differential is the scalability of each of the platforms, both performance and capacity.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>Agreed. Perhaps the main differential is the scalability of each of the platforms, both performance and capacity.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-856</guid>
		<description>Dave, sounds good - no doubt that UVM is a great product.  What are your tier 1/2/3 ratios?

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, sounds good &#8211; no doubt that UVM is a great product.  What are your tier 1/2/3 ratios?</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-855</guid>
		<description>We are UR&#039;ing a copy of our mainframe Mainframe data from a USP onto an AMS2500 virtualized behind a USP-v.  Tier 1 on USP-v.  USP-v virtualizing AMS with FC and SATA disks.  Giving us 3 tiers of storage on and behind a USP-v.  Virtualizing EMC DMX3000, DMX4 and Clariions behind the USP-v.  Gives us one skill set, one management interface and one replication process.  It just don&#039;t get any better than this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are UR&#8217;ing a copy of our mainframe Mainframe data from a USP onto an AMS2500 virtualized behind a USP-v.  Tier 1 on USP-v.  USP-v virtualizing AMS with FC and SATA disks.  Giving us 3 tiers of storage on and behind a USP-v.  Virtualizing EMC DMX3000, DMX4 and Clariions behind the USP-v.  Gives us one skill set, one management interface and one replication process.  It just don&#8217;t get any better than this.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Adams</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-854</guid>
		<description>The line between enterprise and midrange storage has always been a bit fuzzy and evolves over time.  What was true yesterday may not be true today and is even less likely to be true tomorrow.  Customers that are making purchasing decisions are not just considering their immediate requirements but are looking out up to 5 years and need storage that will hold up well over time.

Hitachi (where I work) is focused on bringing enterprise class capabilities (like dynamic provisioning) to the midrange products so they can meet the needs of the midrange market throughout their lifecycle. At the same time we’re also enhancing our enterprise products. The USP V/VM provide features the evolving enterprise market requires (storage virtualization, advanced data mobility, tiered storage management, massive scalability, high performance, etc.).

You’re right in that we’re bringing the ‘enterprise-class’ functionality to our midrange AMS 2000.  Many of these were previously considered &quot;enterprise-class&quot;:
* Automatic allocation of workloads between controllers to alleviate bottlenecks
* Eliminates administrative complexities of ensuring that servers have primary paths to the controller that &quot;owns&quot; their LUNs
* Up to 32 backend data paths (controller to disk) for the best performance available from modular storage
* Choice of high performance SAS and lower $$/GB SATA drives that can be intermixed in the same tray
* Dense disk trays that reduce the amount of GB/floor tile
* Dynamic provisioning that improves performance with wide striping and reduces up front purchases of extra capacity
* Drive spin down to reduce energy costs

As I like to see it, both the USP and AMS 2000 are optimized for the ever-evolving requirements of both the enterprise and midrange market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The line between enterprise and midrange storage has always been a bit fuzzy and evolves over time.  What was true yesterday may not be true today and is even less likely to be true tomorrow.  Customers that are making purchasing decisions are not just considering their immediate requirements but are looking out up to 5 years and need storage that will hold up well over time.</p>
<p>Hitachi (where I work) is focused on bringing enterprise class capabilities (like dynamic provisioning) to the midrange products so they can meet the needs of the midrange market throughout their lifecycle. At the same time we’re also enhancing our enterprise products. The USP V/VM provide features the evolving enterprise market requires (storage virtualization, advanced data mobility, tiered storage management, massive scalability, high performance, etc.).</p>
<p>You’re right in that we’re bringing the ‘enterprise-class’ functionality to our midrange AMS 2000.  Many of these were previously considered &#8220;enterprise-class&#8221;:<br />
* Automatic allocation of workloads between controllers to alleviate bottlenecks<br />
* Eliminates administrative complexities of ensuring that servers have primary paths to the controller that &#8220;owns&#8221; their LUNs<br />
* Up to 32 backend data paths (controller to disk) for the best performance available from modular storage<br />
* Choice of high performance SAS and lower $$/GB SATA drives that can be intermixed in the same tray<br />
* Dense disk trays that reduce the amount of GB/floor tile<br />
* Dynamic provisioning that improves performance with wide striping and reduces up front purchases of extra capacity<br />
* Drive spin down to reduce energy costs</p>
<p>As I like to see it, both the USP and AMS 2000 are optimized for the ever-evolving requirements of both the enterprise and midrange market.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Bohnsack</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Bohnsack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-853</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris, we are already running most of our applications on AMS1000 systems; only about 20% of our storage is enterprise storage, most of it USP. Our tests prior to deploying the first AMS2000 system indicated that the performance has been considerably improved over the AMS1000. Add to this that more and more enterprise functions are added to midrange arrays and the application for enterprise storage becomes smaller and smaller. Major issues for me in midrange storage are:
- Availability: It becomes more and more difficult (if not to say almost impossible in some cases) to take applications offline for maintenance work. So the ability to non-disruptive upgrade (icluding microcode) and repair is absolutely essential.
- Attachment: The major impediment not to scale our current midrange systems beyond one frame is the limited number of ports these systems offer in association with the number of servers we need to connect and the number of LUNs we need to provision.
I believe that midrange and enterprise storage will converge over the next years up to a point when we won&#039;t deploy different kinds of arrays anymore but will have all tiers of storage in one system. There are already vendors offering systems with the same feature set in their midrange and enterprise arrays, the major difference between both classes just being the scalability (capacity and ports).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris, we are already running most of our applications on AMS1000 systems; only about 20% of our storage is enterprise storage, most of it USP. Our tests prior to deploying the first AMS2000 system indicated that the performance has been considerably improved over the AMS1000. Add to this that more and more enterprise functions are added to midrange arrays and the application for enterprise storage becomes smaller and smaller. Major issues for me in midrange storage are:<br />
- Availability: It becomes more and more difficult (if not to say almost impossible in some cases) to take applications offline for maintenance work. So the ability to non-disruptive upgrade (icluding microcode) and repair is absolutely essential.<br />
- Attachment: The major impediment not to scale our current midrange systems beyond one frame is the limited number of ports these systems offer in association with the number of servers we need to connect and the number of LUNs we need to provision.<br />
I believe that midrange and enterprise storage will converge over the next years up to a point when we won&#8217;t deploy different kinds of arrays anymore but will have all tiers of storage in one system. There are already vendors offering systems with the same feature set in their midrange and enterprise arrays, the major difference between both classes just being the scalability (capacity and ports).</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-852</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Interesting post.

I think scalability has always been a major differentiator - enterprise scales well compared to midrange/modular.

Of the announcements made re the AMS enhancements, Im not sure any of them change where the AMS stands relative to the items on storagebods definiton of enterprise.

For me a major differentiator between the AMS and the USP has been around services like TrueCopy, ShadowImage and the likes.  The AMS and its predecessors have always been severely limited in comparisaon to the USP (number of pairs and scalability of the software.......).  I suppose the limited cache and ports is a huge factor and restricts number of pairs and the likes.

Now if you could cluster AMS&#039;s then that might be intereting.

Now what does the 32MB page size tell us about TP extent sizes?  How come Hitachi didnt go the route of other vendors and have an extent size measured in KB rather than MB?  I Will be posting on that at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Interesting post.</p>
<p>I think scalability has always been a major differentiator &#8211; enterprise scales well compared to midrange/modular.</p>
<p>Of the announcements made re the AMS enhancements, Im not sure any of them change where the AMS stands relative to the items on storagebods definiton of enterprise.</p>
<p>For me a major differentiator between the AMS and the USP has been around services like TrueCopy, ShadowImage and the likes.  The AMS and its predecessors have always been severely limited in comparisaon to the USP (number of pairs and scalability of the software&#8230;&#8230;.).  I suppose the limited cache and ports is a huge factor and restricts number of pairs and the likes.</p>
<p>Now if you could cluster AMS&#8217;s then that might be intereting.</p>
<p>Now what does the 32MB page size tell us about TP extent sizes?  How come Hitachi didnt go the route of other vendors and have an extent size measured in KB rather than MB?  I Will be posting on that at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Evans</title>
		<link>http://www.thestoragearchitect.com/2009/06/30/enterprise-computing-new-hds-ams-do-we-need-enterprise-storage/comment-page-1/#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thestoragearchitect.com/?p=622#comment-851</guid>
		<description>Ah Ron

Good point - mainframe is effectively an &quot;enterprise&quot; feature....

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah Ron</p>
<p>Good point &#8211; mainframe is effectively an &#8220;enterprise&#8221; feature&#8230;.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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